Hanaabilah on the position of neglecting prayer.

I believe that after some time lets say someone abandons salah for 4 years i think then the ulema will agree they have left islam wether they believe it was intentional or out of laziness, as ibn taymiyyah said in majmoo al fatawa that its by consensus that whoever abandons the salah has left islam. The Hanaabilah are talking more short term, like ibn baz and i believe ibn ithaymeen as well say if you even miss one salah you have committed kufr.  But for the long term Ibn Taymiyyah basically states it doesnt matter if its intentional or not, after awhile its kufr and this topic is something that a scholar needs to address and they have. I think all the ulema would agree if a muslim went 10 years without praying that they are no longer considered muslims. Shaykh Abu adnan gives a great lecture regarding this issue from umdat al fiqh. So in short, i think the difference of opinion is one missing one salah and wether thats kufr. This issue has greater consequences though If a muslim in the Islamic states abandons the salah, he is suppose to be brought before a qadi

, According to the Hanaabilah, shafiyyah and mailikiyyah he is asked 3 times to repent and to begin to pray, if he doesnt then he is executed, And the Ahnaf say he is to be jailed, Then the scholars go into more difference of opinion on wether he dies a kafir or not. And ibn taymiyyah said that it is illogical for someone who believes the salah is obligatory to be asked 3 times to pray and each time he says no and then he sees the sword about to execute him. Ibn taymiyyah said its impossible for him to be a muslim when he sees hes going to die and he still denys the salah, its illogical because if you believe salah is an obligation you will pray. Ibn Taymiyyah said how can there be two opinions in this case there can only be one because no one who is muslim when he is about to be executed that he would still deny it. According to the hanaabilah this person is a kafir who is executed because he still refused the salah. This is what is reported by ibn taymiyyah and al Mardawi. The one opinion whoever abandons the salah out of lazyness is kafir, and the other second major opinion is the one who does that is in major sin. One branch says abandoning a enjoineable salah you become a kafir. Meaning if he misses fajr and so on, But maybe he wanted to join dhuhr with asr. or maghrib and isha. Its Ijma that whoever denies salah is Kafir this agreed upon.

1st Daleel that whoever abandons the salah is Kafir
Collected by Imam Muslim narrated by Jabir bin Abdullah the prophet salla alayi wa salam said "Between them and the kufr is abandoning the salah"
Ibn Taymiyyah commented on the hadith saying there is a difference between kufr and al kufr. An example giving by Abu Adnan is get me the keys to a car, it could be any car, but if you say get me the keys to the car, then thats a specific car. So when the word kufr is used it could be major or minor, but if it is al kufr, the al is stating that it is a specific meaning not the general, This is one of the daleel of saying abandoning it is major kufr. 

The Ulema all agree that abandoning the salah is minor kufr but they disagree on wether its major

2nd daleel

The prophet said " the covenant Between us and them is the salah" And when he said that he also put a line in the sand.

3rd daleel
the prophet also said"  between the slave and the iman and the kufr is salah"

4th daleel based on commentary on a hadith with similar wording about being raised with those who  do this
Ibn al qayyim said " Whoever is busy with his wealth and kept away with salah is gathered with qaroon. And whoever dis kept away from his salah with his ministry is gathered in the day of judgement with Haman. And whoever kingdon has kept him away from the salah is gathered with Pharaoh and whoever  has trade that keeps him away from the salah he is gathered with ubayd bin khalaf

5th daleel
Imam Ahmad collected that Muadh ibn Jabal said the prophet said " Whoever neglects salatan which is obligatory then Allah becomes free from him" The important word is salatan which means One salah

6TH daleel
Imam Ahmad also collected another hadith where the prophet said whoever does not have enough salah the none of his good deeds are not accepted.  So If you dont have enough salah on the day of judgement your among the losers

7th Daleel and the strongest daleel for this issue
Abd-Allaah ibn Shaqeeq said: the companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not think that neglecting any deed made a person a kaafir, apart from neglecting the prayer."  So it is a Ijma among the sahaba that if someone abandons the  salah then he is a kafir and this is the strong adila

8th daleel

Ishaq the companion of Imam Ahmad said it is authentically related from the prophet that whoever neglects the salah is  a kafir. And this is the opinion from the sahabah all the way until today. (240 hijri)
Ishaq also said the one who neglects it purposly then he is a kafir

Also Muhammad ibn Nasr  said " The one who abandons the salah is a disbeliever and he is out of islam and this is the opinion of the sahaba and no one opposes this opinion"

This is also the opinion of Imam Ahmad and 1 of the 2 opinions of Ash shafi'i and Imam Malik

Ibn Hazm said  Clearly from  Umar and other comapions held this opinion and no one opposed them. And they were not allowed to here a fatwa that was wrong and stay silent. So tha showed that it makes you kafir

This is just some adila from this side, it took me some time to go through the lecture and get this but this is the adila for those who say you are kafir and when i get time i will put the adila for the other side out of fairness

Wa alaykum salam wr wb,

The Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahu alayhie wa sallam) said, “Allah has prescribed five prayers on the worshipers, so whosoever comes with them without neglecting anything from them, there is with Allah for him a pact that He enter him into Paradise, and one who does not come with that, he has no pact, Allah may punish him or forgive him.” [Aw kama qala]

This is related by Malik, Abu Dawud, Nasa’i, Ibn Hibban, Ahmad, Bayhaqi in al-Sunan al-Kubra, Hakim, and others. Tashih of the hadith was made by Hakim, Ibn Hibban, Ibn Abd al-Barr, Munawi, Ibn al-Sakan, Imam Nawawi in Khulasah and Sharh al-Muhadhdhab, ‘Iraqi in Tarh al-Tathrib, and others. Hafiz Ibn Hajar mentioned that this is أقوى ما استدل به على عدم كفره.

Additionally, the hadith related by Imam Muslim in his Sahih that the Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahu alayhie wa sallam), “Whoever passes away whilst knowing ‘La ilaha illa Allah,’ enters the Paradise.”

Furthermore, the Muslims have not stopped inheriting from the tarik al-salah, and if he was a disbeliever, this would not be valid.

The hadiths like, “between the servant and disbelief is abandoning the prayer,” may be understood to be for the one rejecting its obligatory nature; this understanding coming in the process of reconciliation between otherwise seemingly conflicting reports. Reports related along the lines of من ترك الصلاة فقد كفر may also be seen to imply kufr al-ni’mah, and not disbelieve which puts one out of the fold.

In Sharh Sahih Muslim 2/70, Imam Nawawi related an ijma’ on one who knowing that the prayer is obligatory but still denies it, so then he has left the fold. Then, he ascribes to the jumhur, from amongst the salaf and khalaf, that one who leaves it out of laziness, for example, he is a fasiq, but not a kafir. In Fath al-Bari 12/203, Hafiz Ibn Hajar likewise ascribed this view to the jumhur. There has been an ijma’ related by some, for example in Bughyat al-Mustarshidin p. 115 Ba’Alawi related that one who leaves it out of laziness being a fasiq is a point of ijma’. Perhaps that naql be found in other places too. It does seem like those who proceeded to make takfir would not disagree with such a person being a fasiq, if the naql not necessitate a negation of their opinion. For sure, fisq is less severe than kufr. And Allah knows best.

There is a debate between Imams Shafi’i and Ahmad which Ibn al-Subki documented in Tabaqat al-Shafiyyah al-Kubra 2/61. Imam Ahmad debated Imam Shafi’i on the point of one who abandons the prayer for no reason.

The account is as follows:

ناظر أحمد الشافعي في تارك الصلاة فقال له الشافعي يا أحمد أتقول إنه يكفر؟

Imam Shafi’i said to Imam Ahmad, “Do you say that he disbelieves?”

قال نعم

Imam Ahmad replied, “Yes.”

قال إذا كان كافرا فبم يسلم

Imam Shafi’i again questioned him, “If he became a disbeliever, with what does he become a Muslim?”

قال يقول لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم

Imam Ahmad replied, “He says, ‘La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammad Rasul Allah.”

قال الشافعي فالرجل مستديم لهذا القول لم يتركه

Imam Shafi’i then asked, “The individual remained with this statement, he never left it?”

قال يسلم بأن يصلي

Imam Ahmad then said, “He returns to Islam by praying.”

قال صلاة الكافر لا تصح ولا يحكم بالإسلام بها

Imam Shafi’i replied, “The disbeliever’s prayer is invalid and he is not judged with Islam by it.”

فانقطع أحمد وسكت

Then, Imam Ahmad gave up and remained silent.

Attributing a qawl to Imam Shafi’i is questionable pertaining to the hikayat al-madhhab as expressed and documented by Imam Nawawi. In Rawdah 1/703, Imam Nawawi mentioned that there is a difference on the point, the relied-upon position being “’ala al-sahih,” which is a difference from the As-hab al-Wujuh; furthermore, the view that one does become a disbeliever is stated to be “shadhdh” [erroneous].  

From amongst the As-hab al-Wujuh of the Shafiyyah this “shadhdh” view is related from Mansur al-Faqih, Ibn Khuzaymah, Abu al-Tayyib b. Salamah, Abu Ubayd b. Juwayriyah, Abu Ja’far al-Tirmidhi, and perhaps others. (See: Hafiz Ibn Hajar’s Fath al-Bari 12/203; Sharh al-Muhadhdhab 3/15; Fath al-Aziz 2/462)

In Sharh al-Muhadhdhab 3/15, Imam Nawawi related the relied-upon view as “al-mansus al-sahih,” perhaps being an instance where the As-hab developed a wajh in spite of there being a preexisting qawl on the matter.

Imam Nawawi’s books, and many others in the Shafi’i Madhhab, do not seem to document the view here attributed to the Hanabilah as a qawl from Imam Shafi’i; while it is noted to be a shadhdh view of some of the As-hab. Thus, as least how the Shafiyyah relate the Madhhab, the view was never given much credence as a qawl or otherwise; furthermore, is considered weak in light of the evidence. The jumhur maintained that one believing the prayer is upon him, while abandoning it, is still a Muslim.

And Allah knows best.

al-Salam 'Alaykum Shaykh Ya'qub,
I hope you are well.

JazakAllah Khayran for your beneficial post. I have learned much more. BarakAllah Feek.

How do the 'Ulamaa interpret that quote, that mentions regarding the Ijma' of the Sahabah. This is used as an evidence for the people that believe one who abandons prayer despite believing in it's obligation is still an unbeliever.

Brother Abu Murdiyah, I apologize that I wasted your time by implying the wrong question. I know their Daleels of both the side. I was just wondering how do the other side of the coin explain that Ijma' of the Sahabah part.

Nonetheless, JazakAllah Khayran for the proofs you mentioned, I did learn more.

How do our pious scholars of the past explain that ''Ijma'' ?

JazakAllah Khayran,
Wassalam.

Abu Zaynab.

wa alaykum salam wr wb,

I have seen the view attributed to Ali b. Abi Talib. Where is the ijma' you speak of reported?

al-Salam 'Alaykum,
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/5208/neglecting%20prayer

Last paragraph, where it is cited from Ibn al-Qayyim's book al-Salah.

JazakAllah Khayran,
Wassalam.

Abu Zaynab.

i have to side with the  one who abandons the salah has left islam, I think there adila is very strong and there is alot of notable Ulema with this opinion.  I have heard that is a principle of fiqh that once there is an ijma among the early generation, then a later generation of scholars is not allowed  to go against it or change it, So if there is an ijma amongst the sahaba, theni dont believe you are allowed to change it. Abu Bakr did declare the ones who refused zakat as kafir, even though there is a difference of opinion amongst the sahaba on this issue, When The Muslims who met with Abu Bakr they said, We believe in Allah and his messenger, we believe in the quran and so on, but we are not going to pay you zakat. The delegation clearly said to Abu Bakr that they love islam, they believe in la ilaha illa lah and they love the messenger and they will follow everything, except they will not pay the zakah, and on this basis Abu Bakr declared them to be amongst the Murtadeen. So Even though these Muslims may love islam and believe in ALlah, they are neglecting something with a similar circumstance to the Murtadeen who fought against Abu Bakr. So how would this be explained by those who say you do not leave islam?

i have to side with the  one who abandons the salah has left islam, I think there adila is very strong and there is alot of notable Ulema with this opinion.  I have heard that is a principle of fiqh that once there is an ijma among the early generation, then a later generation of scholars is not allowed  to go against it or change it, So if there is an ijma amongst the sahaba, theni dont believe you are allowed to change it. Abu Bakr did declare the ones who refused zakat as kafir, even though there is a difference of opinion amongst the sahaba on this issue, When The Muslims who met with Abu Bakr they said, We believe in Allah and his messenger, we believe in the quran and so on, but we are not going to pay you zakat. The delegation clearly said to Abu Bakr that they love islam, they believe in la ilaha illa lah and they love the messenger and they will follow everything, except they will not pay the zakah, and on this basis Abu Bakr declared them to be amongst the Murtadeen. So Even though these Muslims may love islam and believe in ALlah, they are neglecting something with a similar circumstance to the Murtadeen who fought against Abu Bakr. So how would this be explained by those who say you do not leave islam?

-abu_murdiyah_al_hanbali

I'm not sure it can be said of them that they love Allah ta'ala, His Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم, or Islam if they refuse to pay zakah. Did they really claim this and mention as much to Sayyiduna Abu Bakr رضي الله عنه? If you have a source, please share it; I'd love to read more about it.

Insha Allah someone here will clarify the question abuzaynab is asking about the ijma you mention--there must be a reason that the majority seem to contradict it.

It is a food for thought and something to ponder that why will majority of the 'ulama oppose that "ijma" of the sahabah as some sites claim that there is an ijma' on this issue and that the soundest opinion is that the person is an unbeliever, whereas this opinion is not the mu'tamad.

Wa alaykum salam wr wb,

Firstly, my initial input was just to clarify the Shafi’i Madhhab’s stance on the matter – along with the dalil supporting it to some extent – while noting that the thread is aimed at the view of the Hanabilah. My input was influenced by that Imam Shafi’s opinion is mentioned.

Ibn al-Qayyim cited Ibn Hazm’s Muhalla 2/242. There it says that if one neglects one prayer intentionally, not performing it until the end of its time, then he has left Islam. The naql from Ibn Hazm relating the ijma’ is silent on the detail of whether one is denying that the prayer is obligatory من يجحد وجوبها or not من لا يجحد وجوبها. The way in which the passage is worded could perhaps imply that the case be included, while it is not directly expressed. Furthermore, the statements of the Sahabah do not expressly address the case. Thus, Ibn Hazm would be surmising that their statements would be inclusive to the case, if we proceed to include it, by inference, into the citation.

al-Shafi’i and others carried the narrations على تركه جحودا.

There is a standing ijma’ on the one who denies the wujub of the prayer. On the one who still maintains it to be wajib, the ulama differed. Imam Nawawi related that jumhur opined that one who believes it to be wajib, is still a (fasiq) Muslim. As he stated,

فذهب مالك والشافعي رحمهما الله والجماهير من السلف والخلف إلى أنه لا يكفر بل يفسق

“As opined by Malik, al-Shafi’i, and the majority, from the salaf and khalaf, that he is not a disbeliever, rather a fasiq.”

Allah knows best.

wa alaikum al-salam,

So the ijma' that is cited about the sahabah, is hinting towards having the resemblance of the kuffaar and not that the person is a kaafir in his reality [haqiqatan] ?

Wa alaykum salam wr wb,

Is there an unequivocally expressed ijma’ related from the Sahabah that every person - including one who still believes it to be wajib - who abandons the prayer, is outside of the fold?

Proceeding from the angle that Ibn Hazm does not differentiate between one who believes it to be wajib or not, statements of the Sahabah have been documented. They do not express the mentioned detail/case. And it is possible to carry their statements over to the case of one who denies the obligatory-ness of the prayer, or for zajr and taghliz. Understanding their statements thus better harmonizes the evidence that would otherwise be found in conflict. Mulla Ali Qari mentioned أن ترك الصلاة عندهم كان من أعظم الوزر وأقرب إلى الكفر.

In Nayl al-Awtar, Shawkani addressed both sides of the argument. Then, following him, Mubarakfuri came in Tuhfat al-Ahwadhi 7/34-36, and assessed that the difference expressed by Shawkani, for example, and the jumhur, is just a khilaf lafzi.

Shawkani’s assessment is that it is fitting to deem that person a “kafir,” while that does not prevent him from receiving forgiveness. He says

لا يمنع أن يكون بعض أنواع الكفر غير مانع المغفرة واستحقاق الشفاعة ككفر أهل القبلة ببعض الذنوب التي سماها كفرا

From that statement Mubarakfuri perhaps found a way to try and reconcile between the view of one being a “kafir,” and the jumhur. Perhaps it is also a bit of an attempt to reconcile on the part of Shawkani too. This is just a point of interest.

Allah knows best.

This issue to me is in my opinion based on how you intrerpret the adila and that is where the ikhtilaf comes into play. But I think if someone says im muslim and they havent offered one salah in lets say 10 years, and they dont perform any ibadah and follow nothing, then i dont know how they can be muslim. But also this discussion really refers to the west and islam today. Because as i posted before, if one abandons the salah he is brought before the judge and if he refuses he is executed. So he wouldnt go 10 years or so without praying. But to Imran I believe it might have been in al bidayah wan nihayah but it was a lecture i heard and you know they never give the sources but i do know alot of it was taking from that book

Some people say just because you say la ilaha illa lah your muslim, but we know there are many things that nullify your islam.  When i listened to this lecture he mentioned a book that was written and it had about 1000 things that nullify your islam or something like that, now that is a book we shoudl be studying here let me find the name

I actually dont know if it is 1000 i wrote the wrong number dont listen to what i just said, after i hear it again ill write it, but hereis the adila for those who say it is major kufr  http://www.mediafire.com/?55lnnuvxn54h59b and here is the  adila in the next lecture by those who say its minor kufr http://www.mediafire.com/?jnpa17gl3231yii by shaykh Abu Adnan on the explanation of Umdat al Fiqh

Wa alaykum salam wr wb,

No one here is shooting down your opinion. The discussion is open insha’Allah. Your dilation on the matter, specifically the 10 year consideration, I admit it is the first time I have seen it.

Different views are cited in Rawdah for when one is considered tarik al-salah, for instance,

1) When the time of the first prayer is expiring,

2) When the time of the second is expiring,

3) When the time of the fourth is expiring,

4) One has left four prayers,

5) He has left enough prayers that it is clear he is habituated to leaving them and negligent.

What you have cited seems closest to the fifth.

JazakAllah khayran.

I actually on this issue am right in the middle, but i am more towards its major kufr. if they have have infact abandoned it, but then the issue is what is abandoning, 1 day 1 week a year 10 years allahu alim, i only said 10 years because unfortunetlly there is some muslims like this. I work with 2 muslim brothers, they were born muslim, he asked  if i prayed, i said yes, then he said i dont think i have prayed in 5 years, and then i started thinking about this topic, 5 years without even 1 rakah, it is kind of sad, 

Wa alaykum salam wr wb,

Allah says in in Surah al-Nisa’ 48, إن الله لا يغفر أن يشرك به ويغفر ما دون ذلك لمن شاء, “Verily Allah does not forgive that a partner be ascribed to Him, and He forgives what is less than that for whosoever He wills.”

There is the hadith, specifically the wording, ومن لم يأت بهن فليس له عند الله عهد إن شاء عذبه وإن شاء غفر له, “And who does not do them, then there is not for him with Allah a pact, if He wants He will punish him, and if He wants He will forgive him” Many ulama have declared this as sahih.

Evidence like this is why there was a need for reconciliation…

wa alaykum salam wr wb,
It is sad you are right. May Allah guide us and the ummah and make us all steadfast on our prayers. Amin.